Figure skating as an artistic art form with American Ice Theatre

Ice Twizzle  0:00  
Welcome to Ice Twizzle, created by figure skaters for figure skaters.

Phill  0:10  
Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm here again, this time with Kate McSwain from American Ice Theatre.

Kate  0:20  
Yes. Hello. Hi, Phill.

Phill  0:22  
Hello all away from sunny, I don't know where you were at the moment, Kentucky?

Kate  0:28  
At the moment for the holidays. I'm in Kentucky with my parents.

Phill  0:31  
I'm imagining for some reason I'm imagining sunny there at the moment.

Kate  0:37  
Yes, keep imagining that.

Phill  0:40  
It's not the truth. keep imagining it. So American Ice theatre, I have seen quite a few sort of snapshots and bits of video footage. And American ice theatre whenever I see them or anybody doing anything to do with American ice theater. Always they're always pretty, pretty cool things to watch, you know, it's always very contemporary, and different, different is the is the main main sort of word that springs to mind, but lovely, different, different sort of, you know, in a lovely way.

Kate  1:22  
Thank you. Thank you. We try. Yes, we are aiming to put a lot of different artistic contemporary skating movement into the world. And we go about that through a lot of various education events and performances.

Phill  1:42  
The movement and the videos that I've seen, are very, very contemporary, very artistic, it's a beautiful, beautifully sort of artistic thing to watch. I mean, is that I take it that is American ice theater, that is the, that is your thing, your thing.

Kate  2:07  
Yes, our brand is taking movement, both from an educated dance space, modern dance, contemporary dance, even various versions of hip hop. And also combining that with skating vocabulary, and the you know, skating turns and the glide and Skids and slides and all of the wonderful things that we have available to us on our blades. And then also intertwining in parts of ourselves and being organic and thoughtful about our inner creativity and what we bring to the table in our own skating. So kind of all three parts in one is what I would say contributes to contemporary skating and we effort to teach that to skaters of all ages and backgrounds and levels.

Phill  3:01  
There's a lot of looks like there's a lot of freedom in it. Because there's there's not. There's not all of the constraints and confines of the regulations that are in competitive skating. I'm thinking, for example. One time, you could lie down at the end of your, at the end of your competition piece that probably most famously torvill and Dean did.

Kate  3:30  
 Yes. 

Phill  3:30  
At the end of the Bolero. And then that was, I believe, taken away. So that's just one thing. Yeah, there must be hundreds. So you've got a lot of freedom.

Kate  3:44  
Yes, I think competitive skating in general has. While it is an incredible athletic sport, it has created barriers to attaining, like, the most creative that we can be in our space. So I would say contemporary skating even is open to exploration of the full space, not just the ice itself as torvill and Dean did but the boards even or the hockey boxes, or just any the glass on the boards at many rinks. So the full space is available to us. And so yeah, it is, it's freeing to be able to use that full space in addition to things that are commonly looked down upon in skating like toe pick drags and skids that are they make noise or, you know, scratches we're told often times in our edge quality to not do those things for competitive, powerful skating. But contemporary skating looks beyond that and tries to explore those things to

Phill  4:55  
do you think that contemporary artistic skating has got its due limelight because I have seen galas where artistic skating is, you know, it's part of, and there's an artistic section, often in competitions. But it's not always ranked the same. It's not always scored the same. I mean, it can't be scored the same, but it doesn't seem to carry the same gravitas as the rest of the competition.

And I mean, in terms of contemporary dancing off ice, as in contemporary dancing without ice skates on contemporary dancng,

Kate  5:38  
yes.

Phill  5:39  
A show will hold its own power in the theater with some very famous names, and have its own, its own entity, its own sort of infrastructure, its own. Contemporary artistic skating doesn't seem to have achieved that, does it? It's, it doesn't have doesn't seem to have had the limelight that perhaps it deserves.

Kate  6:09  
I think that's because we're still a grassroots movement. And we are developing, even through the evolution of skating itself. Moving from early, early skating with Sonja Hennie, through Peggy Fleming and Dorothy Hamill, and John Curry, and now Ice theatre of New York and start artistic companies didn't even really start until about 30 years ago, and focusing early on with the quality, edge quality and glide and power and the beauty behind what we have there. And I think now it's moving into keeping up with the time's right, moving to a space of exploration of oneself, and moving beyond the barriers that have ever existed before on the ice and exploring what else there is. So similar to dance and the evolution of dance, skating's going through that too, and we're, we're new. So it hasn't received its spotlight, I don't think because not everybody knows about it yet. So we want to grow and develop and demonstrate that this is an option for skaters to have skating be a part of their life forever part of their life's journey.

Phill  7:22  
Well, there is that too, isn't there? Because whereas if you're particularly, particularly if you're a free, if you're a solo skater, and you're jumping and doing all of that, there, there is a finite sort of, not age, but there's a finite physical ability to be able to do those things. And particularly if you're, if you're doing, you know, the big jumps to sort of doubles, triples, quads, then definitely in triples, and quads. I would imagine that's not something that you can, you can sort of do forever, like, you know, and so, I guess artistic skating has definitely got that a bit like, like ice dance, i'm an ice dancer myself. And,

Kate  8:06  
sure,

Phill  8:07  
I think that that in terms of longevity, 

Kate  8:12  
yes,

Phill  8:13  
Is perhaps more sustainable than if you're jumping? Because that's, but it's not just not just jumping. It's everything else, isn't it? You know, sort of just the extremeness, of skating, the physicality of it.

Kate  8:30  
Yes. I would say that contemporary skating can live a parallel to that it can, you can do both. But the thing about contemporary skating is contemporary means now, it's right now, it's being present with who you are, and where you are in your own journey, whether that's not jumping, whether that's jumping or doesn't matter, and that contemporary skating wants you to explore your present with your own body and your own mind and your own heart where you are. One of our mantras in American Ice Theater is every one has something to learn, and everyone has something to share. So I think that it doesn't matter where you come from, or where you're at, but we all have something to bring to the table. And maybe that's jumps, maybe that's triples, maybe that's backflips at some point. Maybe that's just the beauty and quality of an outside edge. Or maybe that's being able to do on ice movement that uses the ice itself and rolling around and all of that that many people haven't tried before. So I think that's kind of the beauty of it. It's for everyone at any time.

Phill  9:39  
Yeah, I think as well that I've noticed sort of clappy crowds, or just impressive moment, clappy crowds. So you see sometimes with it with a crowd watching ice skating and particularly if you if you watch it on TV with things like ice dance based TV shows, or ice skating based TV shows where they have celebrities on and whatnot. The crowd claps the crescendo only. So there's a lift, and they clap, there's a jump and they clap. 

Kate  10:21  
Yeah, 

Phill  10:21  
There's a spin, and they clap and  that person could have put in three or four minutes of beautiful skating in between. Yet, it's the lift that is clapped, and lifts, I have done lifts albeit simple ones, but and they are hard. And they take a long time to learn. But nowhere near as much or as expressive, as much as the skating in between. 

Kate  10:49  
Sure, 

Phill  10:49  
And all of the transitional stuff. And I think maybe that artistic skating could also be a way to sort of celebrate that, you know, the skating.

Kate  11:01  
Yes, 

Phill  11:02  
The actual skating beat. I know it's all skating. But you can see what I'm saying,

Kate  11:06  
Yes, I do. And perhaps that's the need to start training audiences to view it as art. And looking at it, as you would go into the theater, like you mentioned before, and seeing a contemporary dance company, you would watch and watch the whole piece, before you would clap, you would in intake, the emotion or the shapes, or the athleticism or the risks, or just the quiet that the dancers are portraying in their movement. And I think it's the same for skating, it's just audiences haven't yet been trained to view it like that. And I think that there's an international contemporary skating community. And we're all kind of working together to try to get exposure and platforms where we can start showing audiences this type of art.

Phill  11:58  
So I mean, if there's an international community, so you have sort of an equal opposite, say, in France, or in Canada, or in Germany, 

Kate  12:09  
Yes,

Not all the countries. But there's a number of contemporary skating companies that have been around for a little while, as well as new ones that have cropped up. So some really interesting ones that would be worth an extra look would be Le Patin Libre, and they're from Montreal, but they travel globally for contemporary skating. Ice Theatre of New York, of course, Ice Dance International, those are American companies that have been around a little while. And then some new ones have cropped up. So Berlin has a contemporary skating group called Unfreeze and Stockholm and London both have new contemporary skating companies, ice Theatre of London and Ice Theatre of Stockholm. So it's definitely a growing movement, and that's so exciting, because the more people that can see it from an audience perspective, as well as skating community members who can can experience it for themselves, and see what a beautiful art form it is to express oneself. I think that it will really grow. 

Phill  13:10  
There's the point of art and sport, and there's always been this argument in skating of whether it should be viewed as a sport or whether it's an art form. And there's loads of articles and there is loads of stuff and particularly at the moment, as well as some governments are treating sports different to the arts. Yes. And and that's causing a divide as well. But it's both isn't it? 

Kate  13:37  
Yes

Phill  13:38  
It really is, it's hard to define because it is both and and if we go very far up the one route of sport and you look at quads, then,

Kate  13:50  
yes, 

Phill  13:52  
You know, that's, that extreme, extreme angle, and then up the other side is purely artistic or purely contemporary. Perhaps not a good example, because you could also be jumping in it. But you know what I mean? There's two, 

Kate  14:05  
Yes, I do,Yes.

It sort of blends yet completely, completely splits. And I think, I think that there's that ability on ice that John Curry was kind of famous for portraying that if you are moving then you can, if you're moving forward, have a forward velocity. 

Yes.

Phill  14:32  
You can move unnaturally, slowly. 

Kate  14:36  
Yes. 

Phill  14:37  
Whilst you yet you're still moving. So these you can see see what I'm trying to say that you can you, create shapes and create movement that perhaps you couldn't on dry land.

Kate  14:50  
On the floor. Sure. Yes, we definitely have this really incredible extended space that I think dancers sometimes would be Jealous of because they want to be able to fly. But it doesn't mean at the same time as a choreographer, I do run into moments when the blades get in the way, sometimes I wish we could, especially in an ensemble choreography, do more contact, contact improvisation as well as exploration of  body weight. And how those two people can share body weight or more people. And sometimes the blades get in the way, because it's dangerous. So I think both dance, floor dance and contemporary skating have the barriers to work through on different fronts.

Phill  15:38  
Yeah, I suppose. Because if you're physically capable on dry land, to, do a backwards arch and hold it there, it doesn't matter whether you're capable of that on ice because your feet are gonna slip from under you aren't they, there's that point of balance. That's sort of is more crucial.

Kate  15:57  
Yeah, they both offer really wonderful pros. But they both have their cons too. Which is interesting, because there's actually a company in France, who is exploring a lot of like, both of that dancers and and skaters together. They're exploring the floor work of being on the ice in shoes, as well as even being an only one skate. And I mean, there's just so much exploration that can be done in both mediums.

Phill  16:24  
That's crazy. One skate, I struggle on two, infact, I have stuggled on none before now, falling over. Yeah, it's, there's there's a huge scope for it, isn't there? And.

Kate  16:39  
Yes.

Phill  16:40  
I wonder why. We don't see more of it. I mean, whenever I see artistic or contemporary skating on on YouTube or social media, I always share it and know that there's a lot of people that do as well, because it stands out. So much. So I guess there's a, there's a good, a good side, in terms of it. Not being completely mainstream, that it does really stand out. But it would be nice if it was more mainstream, because sure has a lot to offer.

Kate  17:16  
Sure. And I mean, that's another medium that's interesting about the world today too, that they'd never had before and that is social media and the ability to video it with. I mean American Ice Theatre has worked with On Ice Perspectives and Jordan and he's bringing skating to the world in such a different way than it's ever been brought before. And I think that that is a new angle that is going to really grow contemporary skating, as well as skating in general and all forms of skating, including synchronized skating or theater and ice Ballet Sur Glace. I think it's gonna come forward with the use of video and social media that we've never seen before.

Phill  17:56  
Yeah, I've seen these, these, new styles of footage or recording and it does. 

Kate  18:02  
Yeah.

Phill  18:03  
Bring things to life, doesn't it? I mean, I'm sure that it's, like, you know, with On Ice Perspectives, it's a very particular skill, because I've tried to do some camera work myself.

Kate  18:15  
Oh, yes. 

Phill  18:15  
Just with selfie sticks. And with and with sort of, you know, even if you've got a gimbal it's still quite difficult to control the camera and skate at the same time.

Kate  18:26  
Definitely is a skill set.

Phill  18:28  
Yeah, absolutely. And I think these mediums coming forward, to portray skating in different ways. lend to the artistic. 

Kate  18:41  
Yes. 

Phill  18:41  
Presentation of it, don't they? 

Kate  18:44  
Yes. 

Phill  18:45  
And hopefully, hopefully, it will grow because there must be an element of, you know, the cathartic it's almost cathartic in terms of something for the practitioner? Because it seems that there's a moment of mindfulness in it in a lot of

Kate  19:08  
Yes.

Phill  19:10  
In a lot. 

Kate  19:10  
Yes. 

Phill  19:11  
In a lot of the contemporary skating that existing in the moment, is that something that you I guess you can't teach that but is that

Kate  19:21  
well, we try to an American Ice Theatre. Um, I think we do try to bring that element in. And we try to teach it there's, of course, it's a it's both parties need to be involved, that person experiencing needs to be open and ready and willing to put themselves in a place where they're more vulnerable than perhaps they've been in previous, more competitive skating. And we try to teach it through mindfulness tools, breath and being present with one's body and mind. As well as even things like yoga we do a monthly yoga virtual class on our Instagram, we know that and recognize that the mind body connection is crucial to being able to bring that to the ice. And then finally, we do it through a lot of improvisation exercises and guided sort of boundary given improvisation movement, in seminars, and in our annual events that we offer across the year. And we, to all ages really, we don't even it's, an eight year old can experience this as much as a 70 year old can experience this. And bringing oneself to a place where you're connected in your present body and your breath and allowing your movement to flow from there. We truly believe that's when you're most creative is when you are in touch with your inner self. So the experience of it is is really beautiful, but requires you to be open to it.

Phill  20:52  
Yeah. And what take some bottle as well, that takes some strength to be able to do that. That takes some courage. 

Kate  21:00  
Yes.

Phill  21:01  
It must be. It must be quite confidence building once, once you've you know, if you struggle with something, and then you do something, and then afterwards, that, you know that you perhaps saw that as something that you couldn't do or wasn't you as a person, that must be quite confidence building. I would have thought that there's that element to it.

Kate  21:23  
Yes, I think courage is a great word for that, um, and in a, in a field and industry when we are told what to do, and trained what to do exactly right and wrong all the time technique, which is so important. And I want to make sure that we say how important that foundation is to all skating regardless if its contemporary or, or anything else, that foundation of learning technique is super important. But at some point, you start to let go of the technique, and you just start to be present with yourself. And at seminars, we often say there is no right or wrong in this, you're told constantly from coaches, you're doing it wrong, you need to do it this way. But in seminars and improvisation, everything you do is right. And that's kind of empowering, I think to hear for skaters of any age or level. And when they start to accept that it's amazing. Every skater has it inside them to create movement, whether they want to choreograph or perform, it doesn't matter. They still have it inside them. And they're still creating in that moment, something beautiful or incredible to watch or exciting. It. It's really, I guess, courageous and empowering. Those are two wonderful words for contemporary skating.

Phill  22:41  
Sometimes you can get something accidentally really cool of that improv kind of thing. Because, I've been at like on a public session where there's music playing, and you're practicing whatever you need to practice for your coach or your next test. And then you sort of a you sort of have a break away from that. And you're just sort of skating just just skating for the sake of skating, maybe is a good tune on. So maybe you sort of do some cross rolls to it, and then maybe like a three turn and do a bit of backwards and then cross roll and then maybe like a bit of a spread eagle and and sort of throw a few things together. You know, they might be the only things that you can do. They were at that time, the only things that I could do. And sometimes you can put like 10 or 15 things together, and it goes really cool. And you're like, I wish I could do that again.

Kate  23:31  
Yes. Yes. So that's, that's exactly what it is. You should come and join us, Phill. That's exactly what it is. And not only that, but we try to give you tools as you do that the first time, then the next time, we'll give you a tool to think about how can you insert an emotion in this? How would that change the movement? Or how would you insert an energy we call it energy when you do it a different way, the quality of the movement. And so just kind of growing and expanding one's mind and how those vocabulary steps that you put together that you've learned from since you began skating can be combined with the musicality or sharing of one's emotion, whatever it is that you want to bring to the table and share. So that's Yeah, that's really cool.

Phill  24:23  
I would love to have a go at that. I would love to, whether I could do it in front of an audience is another thing that's like you know, if you if you've got a session booked with your club or your organization and you know that it's a closed door session, so everybody in there's got that safety in terms of they can explore their skating that the conceptual kind of side of the artistic side of it in the relative safety of not being viewed on then I would love to have a go at that, whether I would be able to then do that once the curtain goes up. I don't know that maybe that's a learned skill.

Kate  25:12  
Yeah. And I think it doesn't always have to be that you perform, many skaters don't want to perform any longer or ever wanted to in the first place. And they can just explore this in the community and with each other in a safe space. And that is good enough. And we recognize, again, contemporary skating and American ice theater recognize that everyone is where, where they're at, wherever that is, and we see them there. And so you don't have to always perform, although many skaters do want to perform. So they explore this movement to increase and better both their competitive performance or just their artistic performance. While many skaters just join us to be a part of the community, and by the way, it made me think when you said having that safe space, all of the American Ice Theatre's events. So our core camp for the younger skaters are adult weekend skate away for adults, which includes wine and contemporary skating. And our professionals event called the American contemporary skating festival, all of these actually turn the lights down or off in, in the ice rink. It's one of our signature, sort of atmospheric things because of that exact thing you said where skaters need to feel safe, and that they are short of shutting the doors and able to be with themselves. So it's kind of like a yoga class in that way, we have string lights that we put around, and just turn the lights off so that you can't see everybody as well. But you can sort of take a breath and be inside yourself. So I agree with you on that, and we tried to approach that with that technique.

Phill  26:49  
That's really cool. I would love to, I would love genuinely love to watch your show. I'm not just saying that, because this has been recorded on a podcast. I really would. But I don't know. I don't know what there is in the UK. Actually. I don't know. I think everything's, not at the moment, nothing's happening. But I will check that out. Maybe. Maybe we will see you in the UK, the UK branch of, could you have the UK? Could you have a UK branch?

Kate  27:23  
Yes, we actually yeah, we're about to launch American ice theater, Dubai. So yes, there could be a branch. However, we also want to support our fellow colleagues at the Ice Theater of London, and they are doing edge classes and bringing mindfulness and through their movement of skating. And they have just launched this year 2018 this past year 2020. So I certainly would want to support what they're doing in London, too. 

Phill  27:46  
Oh wow, so this, it really is an awareness thing, isn't it? Because there are groups out there in different countries doing things? And 

Kate  27:56  
Yes.

Phill  27:58  
A lot of it is awareness that it's happening. Because,

Kate  28:02  
Yes.

Phill  28:03  
it's a beautiful movement. And there's, I think there's a place for it, there's a place for it mentally for the person, and I think there's a place for it socially. There's definitely a place for it artistically and, there should be a place for it in the sport as well. Because by, I don't know whether this makes sense. But you know, by defining the artistic and the contemporary side, you also define the sport side, which is what the sport has been craving for as well.

Kate  28:37  
Yes.

Phill  28:38  
Although they can completely fit together you can you can have contemporary artistic in solo free in dance. And you can have

Kate  28:47  
Yes

Phill  28:48  
Triples in artistic contemporary. It would help to, with that definition. I know what I'm on about even if nobody else. There's people out there listening to this in their car on the train or something just shaking their head thinking. He's gonna find his own point to the minute. Because I don't know what he's going on about.

Kate  29:09  
Well, I think what you're trying to say is it offers another discipline or division of skating, that maybe hasn't existed before. And each one has its own quality that is important to the overall industry. But this is something that hasn't. It's awareness is important, but it hasn't grown yet. Like we need to grow to a space where people can recognize this as a way to continue their skating journey. If maybe they choose it at eight years old, and they learn their skills and they go with to become a contemporary skater, or maybe they choose it at 16 years old, and they want to come back to skating or maybe they choose it when they go to college and they don't know how to continue skating in their life. When they want to go have a job and and pursue whatever's next so it's sort of always there for whoever wants it. To learn from it and to perform it if they want. So I think Yeah, exposure is important. I think we're trying to do performances more and more, bringing that kind of movement to the videos and the events that are out there, I think helps bring awareness because then people want to learn about it. And then they come to the events, the seminars and the education events. So yeah, I think even this conversation is important and understanding what contemporary skating is. So I certainly appreciate your perspective, too.

Phill  30:30  
Oh, thanks. I was just thinking when you're saying about, you know, people being able to skate at different ages and even skating from very young, how mad how amazing would it be? If you had children, that you know, you get you get these prodigy children that are sort of trained from when they're three years old? So they can jump quads when they're 15? Or 16?

Kate  30:54  
Yeah.

Phill  30:54  
How amazing would it be? If you had people right from the get go at starting out skating were contemporary artistic skaters? Right from the start?

Kate  31:04  
Yes.

Phill  31:05  
How amazing would you be? Not that you can necessarily get better? Because it's a self a personal thing? But how amazing would with the presentation of all that be by the time you were 16?

Kate  31:16  
Yes.

Phill  31:17  
If you'd nurtured these very young skaters into contemporary, that'd be amazing, wouldn't it? That'd be a whole

Kate  31:27  
Well, so you are speaking to the dream of American Ice Theater, this is what we, this is what we effort for every day, we want to start them young, we want to, we have different sort of levels, grassroots levels of learning this type of movement, and being open to this type of movement. And let me tell you, one of the most special moments of my career was when I had a 13 year old come to me and say I want to be a contemporary skater. And she has she's training her in the in the States, we call it moves in the field, and you know, your skating skills and your edges and your turns. And she she's also testing her freestyle tests, and she still wants to just be a contemporary skater. And the joy that that filled me with knowing that she viewed that as something she could do was just really incredible. So yes, this can happen, we can train them to do that. But I want to say the foundational skills of skating must always be there, just like ballet has to be there for every type of dance. To help a dancer know how the foundation of movement starts from and it's the same way skating skills, edges, turns glide, like all of the things we learn. 

Phill  32:40  
Yeah, there'sno, there's no shortcut is there, there's no shortcut to great, 

Kate  32:46  
Right, that's all important.

Phill  32:46  
Really good fundamental skating skills and I think that can be true of ice dance as well. Because 

Kate  32:57  
Yes. 

Phill  32:58  
I think sometimes the can be a little bit of confusion, or some sort of misinterpretation of the fact that because you're not jumping, and doing sort of triples and quads and whatever, that it's easy. But in terms of depth of edges and skating skills, it's very, very much not easy. And I guess the same in contemporary artistic that basic abilities still needs to be there. So it will push your skating forward, doesn't it? Which is 

Kate  33:31  
Yes it does. And it all can coexist. I think a lot of figure skating coaches and organizations think that it's, it's their way, it's just you are just a competitive skater, or you're just a skaters testing or you're just a synchro skater. But it all can coexist, you can do many of those things all at the same time and choose which experience fits you best,

Phill  33:56  
it kind of sounds like you're looking at the person rather than, you know, the skating, because if you look at it the other way, and you look at the skating, then you put in a category of you're pairs or you know, or your ice dance or your whatever. But I don't know it sounds to me like that the the artistic contemporary side of it is more built around the person. And ice skating fits around them more than the other way round, which is quite, quite a nice kind of, kind of feel.

Kate  34:28  
Yeah, our mantra is humans first skaters second. for that very reason.

Phill  34:33  
Really, I hadn't even read that. That was so ahh, I'm glad. I'm glad (A) that that's true and (B) that I worked out something on my own. I can't believe how the time is going on by, we should say to everybody, how they can get in touch with you to move the movement on and if there is interested then I know that you you have a website, AmericanIceTheatre.org

Kate  35:02  
Yes, that's correct.

Phill  35:04  
And also, I have an email address, which is info@americanicetheatre.org, which people can get you at, I believe. And of course, you're on social as well.

Kate  35:16  
Yes, Instagram at American Ice Theater and all of those are spelled th e a t r e. Sometimes there's a bit of confusion there.

Phill  35:26  
All right, okay. Okay. That's how that's how I spelled it, which is another plus point for me spelling correct and working something out all in the space of one show. So it's been absolutely, absolutely lovely. having you on the show. And I, as somebody that enjoys contemporary, artistic skating myself, I wish you the very best with raising awareness for it. Because there's, there's got to be something I don't know, cathartic, hollistic something lovely for the people doing it, as well as such a pleasure to watch as well. 

Kate  36:06  
Thank you, yes and I hope that you and I even get the chance to skate together some time, Phill.

Phill  36:12  
Yeah, that would be cool. Hopefully, when when things get back to normal, 

Kate  36:17  
Hopefully, 

Phill  36:18  
Then you never know. And that would be that would be a lovely, lovely thing. And if in the meantime, people check out these videos that are on YouTube, and on social media, and share them and get in contact with people like yourselves, American Ice Theatre, and generally get involved and and see the beauty that's in it, then I think that not only will contemporary artistic skating be better for it, but they will as well. I think the art definitely does something for the person observing it, as well.

Kate  36:59  
Yes, we're a growing community. And we are so excited to introduce every type of skater to what contemporary skating can be for them. 

Phill  37:10  
Fantastic. Well, if you're interested, get in touch with Kate, American Ice Theater at the addresses that we mentioned, on social media, and in the meantime, I should say to everybody, that's it. That's all we've got time for. So thank you very much Kate, for coming on the show.

Kate  37:27  
Thank you.

Phill  37:28  
Thank you, everybody for listening. And until next time, take it easy. Bye bye. 

Kate  37:34  
Bye bye

Ice Twizzle  37:37  
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai